Is this a decision that you celebrate?
>> Thank you. I I never use the word cate.
It's a decision that's the right
decision and I'm pleased for the people
vetting. Um as a council, we always said
the bell was not suitable for this
purpose because it's in close proximity
to five local schools um residential
properties and to um a residential care
home. It just wasn't the right location.
The case seemed to hinge on the use of
planning laws or the lack of changing of
those planning laws to allow that hotel
to become available for asylum seekers.
Does this then mean that any hotel that
doesn't do that even in the area of
Eping will fall foul to a similar high
court ruling?
>> I I think it will be down to each
individual council to assess um on
planning planning rules and that's what
we did.
Do you understand the government's
concern that this might open the door to
every council now taking these hotels to
court or at least the government to
court for their role in it?
>> I accept their concerns, but I think
they should have a better plan and they
should should have a plan B in place for
this eventuality.
>> Plan B would be houses of multiple
occupancy. So you
>> not nec not necessarily. I sorry I
interrupted.
>> That's all right, sir. you you we're
going to have to put them somewhere. If
it's not a hotel in Eping, it might be
um HMOs in Eping. Would you take that to
court as well?
>> Um I don't think that would be a good
decision by the government. I don't know
why the government isn't looking at
pop-up uh processing centers along the
lines of what was done during the
pandemic with the pop-up hospitals.
There there are other ways of dealing
with this. And one of the interesting
things that came up yesterday in court
um from our our um representative was
perhaps they could use crown crown
estates land in order to do that type of
arrangement. There are other ways the
government can deal with the processing
problem.
>> What would what would that look like
potentially then Chris? Crown estate
land. How would that be used?
>> Well that's that down to the government
but I just given a suggestion there.
the that government property, state land
in effect, would be used as as a place
to house securely people who would come
over on boats.
>> Exactly.
>> Um do you worry that there's going to be
then more violence, more protests
outside the hotels, whether they're in
Eping or other places, as part of a way
of bringing court cases? As I've done
from day one as when this all started
back in July, I've called for calm and
peaceful protest if there has to be
protest. Um, unfortunately at the very
beginning of of the this this issue
we've had in Eping, there were some
violent protests caused by extremes from
both sides of the political equation.
Um, which was really worrying and really
upsetting. I have to say to you, the
people of Eping, most of them have dealt
quietly with their concerns, have come
to us quietly and said, "Look, we don't
believe the bell is the right place. We
think it should be shut, but they just
gone on with their lives."
Unfortunately, the disruption of any
form of protest has affected the town.
>> So, any attempt to house the asylum
seekers that are going to be moved from
the Bell Hotel in either any other hotel
in Eping or in HMOS, you would seek to
challenge, Chris? Um I I would rather
that the government consult with us
about what they're planning because the
trouble is with the whole bell issue is
the government have failed to consult
with us. The previous government didn't.
They did listen to our concerns. So for
instance during the pandemic it was used
to house families
young children and families not not
single men. The government this time
acted without proper consultation. They
instructed us what they were doing and
they didn't think about the local
community and they didn't listen to our
concerns. That's why this went so badly
wrong for the government. And it's a
government that doesn't listen. I've
tried to speak to the Home Office
officials. They didn't want to listen.
All you get is the stop reply. We will
try to end you using hotels by the end
of this parliament. Four years is too
long in a small town like Eping.
>> Very good to talk to you. Thank you for
coming on the program. Chris Witbre is
the leader of Eping Forest District
Council leading that high court bid to
block asylum seekers from being housed
in that hotel. K. Marsh is listening to
that community engagement and migrant
support coordinator at the Sfire Project
campaign group based in Dova. Thank you
for coming on. K, your reaction to that
ruling.
>> Well, it's worrying, isn't it? I mean,
you know, if not hotels, then where? Uh,
the use of hotels has never been ideal,
of course, and you know, I think
everybody would like to see the end of
the use of hotels. Um but if not hotels
then where you know we've got Napia
Barracks is a mass accommodation camp
down here in Kent that's due to close as
well. Um there doesn't seem to be a plan
B. There doesn't seem to be um any sort
of firm where these people are going to
go when these places closed.
>> Do you understand uh and accept the
reasons why people in Eping protested at
the use of this hotel particularly with
the type of people that were being
housed in it?
I think that you know certain
individuals cause issues but it's not uh
representative of the majority of these
people. Most people just want to live a
quiet life and you know make it through
the asylum system. Um I think another
worrying aspect of this is of course
that violent protest did bring this
about um and by this ruling I think
other violent protesters might feel
emboldened to do the same thing around
the country. Would
you be comfortable, happy
um to live next to or to have next to
you a hotel housing asylum seekers,
mainly young men?
>> I've voluntarily gone into Napia
Barracks and worked there and worked
with the people there. So, and you know,
I've met uh hundreds of these people and
as I say, the majority are just normal
people that want a nice quiet life. Uh
so, I yes, I would feel safe. So what is
it that people in your mind don't
understand or fail to see or are told
falsely about the people inside those
hotels that leads them to either protest
violently or to protest peacefully?
>> The issue has always been the
miscommunication and the use of isolated
incidents. You know, there's bad people
in in every community. You know, bad
things happen, but it's not
representative of all of the people
within that community. So,
>> um yeah, it's always been an issue. That
being said, I I agree with you on that.
Of course, that being said, part of the
issue with this is that the government
don't seem to be consulting with local
residents or the even in this case the
local council to say that this is
happening. It just happens without
explanation. That's not reasonable.
>> No, I absolutely agree. You know, we've
had similar issues down here again with
Napa Barracks when it first opened. Um,
you know, even support organizations
like Sunfire weren't made aware. Um, so
it's not just, you know, people on the
anti side, it's also people on the pro
side that aren't being consulted and
that does lead to community tensions and
it it, you know, people don't feel like
they're being heard.
>> Do you think then the most reasonable
way of solving this or at least trying
to deal with this is to find a form of
accommodation, whatever that may be,
that means that people who arrive in it
are kept in it and don't have the
freedom to walk into a town or walk into
to to wherever.
I think the danger of that becomes, you
know, we are then essentially detaining
people that haven't really done anything
wrong. Uh we do have detention centers.
Um but, you know, if somebody is
innocent and hasn't hasn't committed a
crime, should they be detained and
locked up in such a way or is that, you
know, a breach of human rights? It's
it's certainly a very complex issue. Um,
and there doesn't seem to be a suitable
plan